The Blogger's Note: The "Great Sifu" Dr JB Lim asked me the other day about the content of an email in Chinese he received from an e-buddy. After I briefly narrated and he mentioned about his interest in the Chinese language, we have a few exchanges of correspondence including responses from Pastor David Chen as follows:From: Tai-Onn Lau
Date: 2011/7/6
Dear Dr Lim,
Your spirit of wanting to learn Chinese is most respectable and I can't express my utmost admiration more!
Being an English-educated and highly-qualified Scientist cum Artist (I must call you an Artist because you are also a musician and philosopher), you show keen interest in Chinese language, Chinese culture and many other things related to China. Very few English-educated Malaysian Chinese would do the same.
Incidentally, I watched an Astro Channel 334 programme last night (10.00pm -10.45pm) that featured a few Caucasion/White artists performing talk shows. They don't only speak fluent Beijing-accented Mandarin, but also use idiomatic expressions in an impromptu manner that can make many a Chinese including myself shy. They have only learned Mandarin in China for a few years like 3 to 4 and some of them have become more Chinese than Chinese (including having Chinese wives)! Meanwhile, there is also a short programme entitled "Happy Hanyu" every night 10.45pm-11.00pm on that Channel and perhaps you would like to take a view one night?
Regards,
Lau
----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:19:03 +0800
From: limjuboo
Thanks Sifu,
I am aware that even CCTV International runs programs on learning Chinese on & off. I do watch some of them, but the problem is I am unable to remember so many words and all what was taught.
To add to this problem when I tried to practice it by speaking to my two Chinese educated daughters, they cannot understand what I was talking? When I explained in English, they told me some of these words are only used in China, not in Malaysia. They told me if I speak like that using China vocabulary and slang, very few here can understand what I am talking about
For instance the word police is: gong an 公安 (China), jingcha 警察(Malaysia & Singapore), bathroom: yushi 浴室/xishoujian 洗手间/ cesuo 厕所 (China), chongliang fang 冲凉房 or chongliang jian 冲凉间 (M'sia), bicycle: zixingche 自行车 (China), jiaoche 脚车 (M'sia), air-conditioning: kongtiao 空调 (China), lengqi 冷气 (M'sia), bus: gonggongqiche 公共汽车(China), bashi che 巴士车 (M'sia), taxi: chuzuqiche 出租汽车 (China) tersi che 的士车 (M'sia)....and so on and so on down the long list.
This is something like Bahasa Malaysia where they simply borrow so many words from English to make them sound 'something like' English or Malaiyu.
So is Chinese... to make some words sound a bit like local dialect, something like Malaysian rojak.
Even the books and English-Chinese books and dictionaries I bought are all published in China.
There are a few English-Chinese books published locally, but there are full of spelling, formatting, spacing, and all sorts of mistakes that you get more confused than learning anything.
So there is nothing like going back to school to learn the language from primary 1 But best of all, go to Mainland China to learn proper Putonghua and not Malaysian local Huayu.
jb lim
Still illiterate
----------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/7/11, david chen wrote:
Hi Dr. Lim,
Someone just mentioned the other day, that the surest and quickest method in learning Mandarin is to purchase the classical Chinese Historical CD, The Three Kingdoms and All Men are Brothers from any CD store.
Even your Sifu will not disagree.
This is the express and practical format, if you can't find any other Sifu except ot.
You will not regret this suggestion,
rgds,
david
another keen student too---
---------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:23:11 +0800
From: lautaionn
Dear Dr Lim,
David is right. If you do watch the CD and can comprehend the contents of the recently China-produced TV classical Chinese historical series “The Three Kingdoms” and “All Men are Brothers”, you can proudly proclaim yourself a Chinese-language expert!
I’m sure you know about the “Four Great or Major Classical Novels” of Chinese literature or “四大名著” (sì dà míng zhù), i.e. the greatest and most influential of classical Chinese fiction. And they are:
1. “Romance of the Three Kingdoms”(《三国演义》sān guó yǎn yì), the historical epic in the turbulent years near the end of the Han Dynasty, featuring such warring leaders as Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Quan (refer to:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms);
2. “Water Margin” or “All Men Are Brothers”(《水浒传》shuǐ hǔ zhuàn), the action/kung fu epic about 108 outlaws or heroes of the Mount Liang during the North Song Dynasty who struggled against the corrupt and unjust officials (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin);
3. “Journey to the West”(《西游记》xī yóu jì), the fantasy epic about the legendary pilgrimage to India of the Buddhist monk Xuanzang with his three disciples, namely Sun Wukong (the Monkey King), Zhu Bajie and Sha Wujing during the Tang Dynasty (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West); and
4. “Dream of the Red Chamber”(《红楼梦》hóng lóu mèng), also known as “The Story of the Stone”(《石頭記》shí tóu jì), the romance epic about the life and social structures of aristocracy during the Qing Dynasty (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_of_the_Red_Chamber).
I bought the DVD of “The Three Kingdoms” sometime before the Chinese New Year this year which has 9 discs with 95 episodes each lasting about 45 minutes. I didn’t start watching until sometime in March, 2011. And you know what? Once I started, I was so mesmerized and engrossed that I couldn’t stop watching 3 to 4 episodes almost every night and finished all within 3 weeks. It refreshed my memory of having read this novel in the younger days and reinforced my understanding of the art of war.
Meanwhile, “All Brothers Are Men” was shown in our local 8TV every Monday to Friday from 8.30pm to 9.30pm from March 1 until June 28, 2011 and I have followed so closely that I have been reluctant to go out of the house or answer incoming phone call during that period of time. Please browse an account of the said serial I have earlier posted in my blog: http://taionn.blogspot.com/2011_04_17_archive.html.
Anyway, I do understand your predicament in learning Chinese because you are learning all by yourself without proper guidance from qualified linguistic teachers. But your understanding of the many different vocabulary and slang between China’s Putonghua and our Malaysian Huayu amazes me and that shows how observant a self-taught learner you are!
Keep it up, Doc, and I believe one day your two Chinese-educated daughters will admire at your command of the Putonghua better than they do.
Cheers,
T.O.
P/s: Please don’t call me “Sifu” any more and make me shy lah. You are the Great Sifu in so many areas and how can I teach a fish how to swim or “teach hewing to the God of Carpenters” (班门弄斧 bān mén nòng fǔ)?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, 8 July, 2011 12:06 AM
From: david chen
Thanks, TO, for your seconding, on my proposal to Dr. Lim on why the Cd's were beneficial for laymen keen to master Chinese/Mandarin speaking from these two Masterpiece.
Date: 2011/7/6
Dear Dr Lim,
Your spirit of wanting to learn Chinese is most respectable and I can't express my utmost admiration more!
Being an English-educated and highly-qualified Scientist cum Artist (I must call you an Artist because you are also a musician and philosopher), you show keen interest in Chinese language, Chinese culture and many other things related to China. Very few English-educated Malaysian Chinese would do the same.
Incidentally, I watched an Astro Channel 334 programme last night (10.00pm -10.45pm) that featured a few Caucasion/White artists performing talk shows. They don't only speak fluent Beijing-accented Mandarin, but also use idiomatic expressions in an impromptu manner that can make many a Chinese including myself shy. They have only learned Mandarin in China for a few years like 3 to 4 and some of them have become more Chinese than Chinese (including having Chinese wives)! Meanwhile, there is also a short programme entitled "Happy Hanyu" every night 10.45pm-11.00pm on that Channel and perhaps you would like to take a view one night?Regards,
Lau
----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:19:03 +0800
From: limjuboo
Thanks Sifu,
I am aware that even CCTV International runs programs on learning Chinese on & off. I do watch some of them, but the problem is I am unable to remember so many words and all what was taught.To add to this problem when I tried to practice it by speaking to my two Chinese educated daughters, they cannot understand what I was talking? When I explained in English, they told me some of these words are only used in China, not in Malaysia. They told me if I speak like that using China vocabulary and slang, very few here can understand what I am talking about
For instance the word police is: gong an 公安 (China), jingcha 警察(Malaysia & Singapore), bathroom: yushi 浴室/xishoujian 洗手间/ cesuo 厕所 (China), chongliang fang 冲凉房 or chongliang jian 冲凉间 (M'sia), bicycle: zixingche 自行车 (China), jiaoche 脚车 (M'sia), air-conditioning: kongtiao 空调 (China), lengqi 冷气 (M'sia), bus: gonggongqiche 公共汽车(China), bashi che 巴士车 (M'sia), taxi: chuzuqiche 出租汽车 (China) tersi che 的士车 (M'sia)....and so on and so on down the long list.This is something like Bahasa Malaysia where they simply borrow so many words from English to make them sound 'something like' English or Malaiyu.
So is Chinese... to make some words sound a bit like local dialect, something like Malaysian rojak.
Even the books and English-Chinese books and dictionaries I bought are all published in China.
There are a few English-Chinese books published locally, but there are full of spelling, formatting, spacing, and all sorts of mistakes that you get more confused than learning anything.
So there is nothing like going back to school to learn the language from primary 1 But best of all, go to Mainland China to learn proper Putonghua and not Malaysian local Huayu.
jb lim
Still illiterate
----------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/7/11, david chen wrote:
Hi Dr. Lim,
Someone just mentioned the other day, that the surest and quickest method in learning Mandarin is to purchase the classical Chinese Historical CD, The Three Kingdoms and All Men are Brothers from any CD store.
Even your Sifu will not disagree.
This is the express and practical format, if you can't find any other Sifu except ot.
You will not regret this suggestion,
rgds,
david
another keen student too---
---------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:23:11 +0800
From: lautaionn
Dear Dr Lim,
David is right. If you do watch the CD and can comprehend the contents of the recently China-produced TV classical Chinese historical series “The Three Kingdoms” and “All Men are Brothers”, you can proudly proclaim yourself a Chinese-language expert!
I’m sure you know about the “Four Great or Major Classical Novels” of Chinese literature or “四大名著” (sì dà míng zhù), i.e. the greatest and most influential of classical Chinese fiction. And they are:1. “Romance of the Three Kingdoms”(《三国演义》sān guó yǎn yì), the historical epic in the turbulent years near the end of the Han Dynasty, featuring such warring leaders as Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Quan (refer to:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms);
2. “Water Margin” or “All Men Are Brothers”(《水浒传》shuǐ hǔ zhuàn), the action/kung fu epic about 108 outlaws or heroes of the Mount Liang during the North Song Dynasty who struggled against the corrupt and unjust officials (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin);
3. “Journey to the West”(《西游记》xī yóu jì), the fantasy epic about the legendary pilgrimage to India of the Buddhist monk Xuanzang with his three disciples, namely Sun Wukong (the Monkey King), Zhu Bajie and Sha Wujing during the Tang Dynasty (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West); and
4. “Dream of the Red Chamber”(《红楼梦》hóng lóu mèng), also known as “The Story of the Stone”(《石頭記》shí tóu jì), the romance epic about the life and social structures of aristocracy during the Qing Dynasty (refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_of_the_Red_Chamber).
I bought the DVD of “The Three Kingdoms” sometime before the Chinese New Year this year which has 9 discs with 95 episodes each lasting about 45 minutes. I didn’t start watching until sometime in March, 2011. And you know what? Once I started, I was so mesmerized and engrossed that I couldn’t stop watching 3 to 4 episodes almost every night and finished all within 3 weeks. It refreshed my memory of having read this novel in the younger days and reinforced my understanding of the art of war.
Meanwhile, “All Brothers Are Men” was shown in our local 8TV every Monday to Friday from 8.30pm to 9.30pm from March 1 until June 28, 2011 and I have followed so closely that I have been reluctant to go out of the house or answer incoming phone call during that period of time. Please browse an account of the said serial I have earlier posted in my blog: http://taionn.blogspot.com/2011_04_17_archive.html.Anyway, I do understand your predicament in learning Chinese because you are learning all by yourself without proper guidance from qualified linguistic teachers. But your understanding of the many different vocabulary and slang between China’s Putonghua and our Malaysian Huayu amazes me and that shows how observant a self-taught learner you are!
Keep it up, Doc, and I believe one day your two Chinese-educated daughters will admire at your command of the Putonghua better than they do.Cheers,
T.O.
P/s: Please don’t call me “Sifu” any more and make me shy lah. You are the Great Sifu in so many areas and how can I teach a fish how to swim or “teach hewing to the God of Carpenters” (班门弄斧 bān mén nòng fǔ)?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, 8 July, 2011 12:06 AM
From: david chen
Thanks, TO, for your seconding, on my proposal to Dr. Lim on why the Cd's were beneficial for laymen keen to master Chinese/Mandarin speaking from these two Masterpiece.
By seeing the film, in reality does provide in itself an authoritative source of rich and enduring work of a world literature as in the chain of cause and consequence that leads ultimately to the collapse of the Han, as in 'The Three Kingdoms'.The English educated viewers will be introduced to this Ming Dynasty masterpiece, (loved throughout China as well as in Japan, Korea and Vietnam) offers a unsparing view of how power is wielded, diplomacy is conducted and how wars are planned and fought.
It has influenced the ways that Chinese think about the power, diplomacy, and war even to this day. When one watches and listen to the narration and the dialogue of the film which is compelling with such an epic grandeur, you indirectly pay more attention to what one watches, and such indirectly learns the words to the narration and dialogue at the same time.
All these do contribute to the limitless use of words and vocabulary one would use also in our daily conversation applied anywhere anytime.
Just a simple opinion. Correct me if I am wrong.
rgds,
david
david
--------------------------------------------
Friday, 8 July, 2011 10:39 PM
Dear Pastor David,Well said. The two masterpieces filmed in China and participated by actors and actresses from China/Taiwan/Hong Kong that you mentioned are of superior standard and the classical narration and dialogue are not easily followed by ordinary Chinese-educated viewers, much less the English-educated.
I totally enjoyed watching the two serials and was so engrossed that my emotion fluctuated with the ups-and-downs of the kingdoms and the heroes, such as feeling outraged by the arrogance of Guan Yu and fiery temperament of Zhang Fei that ultimately cost their lives, angry with the wicked bullying the weak, tearful for the tragic ending of the heroes of Mount Liang after surrendering themselves to the imperial government……
Pastor, I have all along suspected you being literate in Chinese language, although you pretend to be otherwise, because you have emailed me many Chinese articles before. From your present analysis of the two classical Chinese historical films, your true ability is finally exposed, hahaha……..
Wishing you a pleasant and peaceful weekend,
T.O. Lau